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 Post subject: Re: Genetive
PostPosted: Tue 10 Apr 2012 9:22 pm 
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Quote:
Believe it or not, but native speakers make many mistakes as well (in any language)


not with that, I guess. For instance, learners might say *"is maith liom ag ól tae" (from English "I like drinking tea"). I don't think a Gaeltacht speaker would say that (just as you wouldn't say "good is with me tea to drinking" or something like that in English :) )

Anyway when native speakers make mistakes in their dialect it's more like they said something they didn't mean to say (and that they wouldn't say twice in a row). Like if they heard themselves saying it, they'd notice it's wrong. While learners may make mistakes also because they don't know how to say something properly, and until someone tells them or until they learn the rule, they'd make the mistake again and again. And that's normal because you can't learn a language without making mistakes :)

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 Post subject: Re: Genetive
PostPosted: Tue 10 Apr 2012 11:00 pm 
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Quote:
... when it is used with the verb to be:

I am eating = Tá mé ag ithe.

but in English, there are plenty of other contexts in which you would use the verb+ing, and that you wouldn't translate with "ag+verbal noun" in Irish. Many learners make mistakes with that :)


I am glad you pointed this out, a Lughaidh. I almost certainly would have made that very mistake. :yes:

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 Post subject: Re: Genetive
PostPosted: Tue 10 Apr 2012 11:10 pm 
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Annabeth wrote:
I said that the genitive is used when one noun follows another; that includes verbal nouns.ag glanadh na fuinneoige cleaning the window


Is it correct that cleaning the windows is: 'ag glanadh na fuinneog'? It's all a bit bun os cionn, isn't it? :S

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 Post subject: Re: Genetive
PostPosted: Wed 11 Apr 2012 12:08 am 
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Quote:
'ag glanadh na fuinneog'? It's all a bit bun os cionn, isn't it?


if the verb "to be" is somewhere before:

tá mé ag glanadh na fuinneoige (I'm at the cleaning of the window)

"ag glanadh" means "in the process of cleaning" (or something like that), that's why you have to use the verb "to be" with it (normally)

but if you want to say "I like cleaning the window" :) then it would be:
Is maith liom an fhuinneog a ghlanadh.

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 Post subject: Re: Genetive
PostPosted: Wed 11 Apr 2012 12:48 am 
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Aislingeach wrote:
I am glad you pointed this out, a Lughaidh. I almost certainly would have made that very mistake. :yes:
:yes: :good:

So, instead of saying "I like riding my unicorn", it would just be change to the form of "I like to ride my unicorn" in Irish?


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 Post subject: Re: Genetive
PostPosted: Wed 11 Apr 2012 3:53 am 
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This is a weak area for me in which I am need of much help. Are there any 90% of the time rules concerning construction of a genetive, and I don't know the pronunciation differences of such things as lón and lóin. Anybody want to take a crack at informing me?

:nail:


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 Post subject: Re: Genetive
PostPosted: Wed 11 Apr 2012 11:16 am 
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Saoirse wrote:
Annabeth wrote:
I said that the genitive is used when one noun follows another; that includes verbal nouns.ag glanadh na fuinneoige cleaning the window


Is it correct that cleaning the windows is: 'ag glanadh na fuinneog'? It's all a bit bun os cionn, isn't it? :S


ag glanadh na bhfuinneog

'Weak' plurals look singular in the genitive, but they all take an urú where possible after na.


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 Post subject: Re: Genetive
PostPosted: Wed 11 Apr 2012 11:21 am 
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Lughaidh wrote:
Quote:
'ag glanadh na fuinneog'? It's all a bit bun os cionn, isn't it?


if the verb "to be" is somewhere before:

tá mé ag glanadh na fuinneoige (I'm at the cleaning of the window)

"ag glanadh" means "in the process of cleaning" (or something like that), that's why you have to use the verb "to be" with it (normally)

but if you want to say "I like cleaning the window" :) then it would be:
Is maith liom an fhuinneog a ghlanadh.

I think I messed up my question. I wanted to include the plural of window, which I managed to do, but then forgot the 'to be' part. Basically, I wanted the genetive plural of windows used as it seems to be fuinneog which obviosuly sounds strange unless you know what you are at.

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 Post subject: Re: Genetive
PostPosted: Wed 11 Apr 2012 11:45 am 
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Nominative plural: fuinneoga (Connachta and Ulster: fuinneogaí)

Genitive plural: fuinneog, and with the article, as Scooby wrote: na bhfuinneog


Féabar> you can listen to the pronunciation of "lón" and "lóin" in Forvo:
http://fr.forvo.com/word/l%C3%B3n/#ga
http://fr.forvo.com/word/l%C3%B3in/

(and ask other pronunciations if you like :) )

In "lón" the n is "dark", while in "lóin" it is "clear" or "light".

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Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
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 Post subject: Re: Genetive
PostPosted: Wed 11 Apr 2012 1:07 pm 
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Annabeth wrote:

So, instead of saying "I like riding my unicorn", it would just be change to the form of "I like to ride my unicorn" in Irish?


Yes...and no. In Irish the likes of Is maith liom bheith ag marcaíocht ar m' "unicorn" (I like to be riding my unicorn. ) is very common - indicating habitualness and/or duration ("progressive" or "continuous" form in English).

I have no idea what "unicorn" is in Irish. And I only have a teeny-weeny dictionary.


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