but isn't it the same thing with the English sentences that were asked, ie.
"Spirit of an explorer ~ Soul of a Poet" ?

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Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne

Probably, yes!

No.The use of the article is different in Irish from what it is in English, or in French.

It's like seo, sin, siúd versus "this" or "that", where you've got two choices in one language and three in the other. You're never going to get one-to-one mapping.

English and French has three choices: no article, the indefinite article, or the definite article. Irish has only two choices: no article or the definite article. So the usages are bound to be different. And even with the same number of choices, French usage of the definite article differs from the English. (I actually work in Japanese, a language with no definite or indefinite articles, and the choice of article in English is the single biggest mistake non-native translators and machines make when translating into English.)

In the English version, "the" is understood before each phrase. In full, it should be "the spirit of an explorer, the soul of a poet." The meaning is "(I have) the same sort of spirit that explorers generally have and the same sort of soul that poets generally have." This kind of general case is best represented by the article in Irish.

Leaving out the article is not wrong, and putting an article in front of the phrase without one in the middle is also an option, but just because the article is in the same place as in the English original, doesn't mean the meaning is the same. The nuances are different for each one and different in different ways between English and Irish (and between English and French, and between French and Irish).

I therefore think it makes more sense with the article:

Spiorad an taiscéalaí, anam an fhile

That's how I see it, anyway.


How do others see the differences in nuance, if any, between:

Spiorad an taiscéalaí, anam an fhile
Spiorad taiscéalaí, anam file
An spiorad taiscéalaí, an t-anam file

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).

that's not how I see it



to me this is "the spirit that an explorer would have" - you don't know what explorer. If you say "spiorad an taiscéalaí" it's definite ie. you know what explorer you're talking about.
I understand what you mean but to me it's better not to use the article.

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Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne

Thanks for reminding us, Lughaidh. I think we all gathered that.


To me, that indicates that you don't understand the nuances of the English properly.

Even if the English were "the spirit of the explorer ~ the soul of the poet", it still wouldn't necessarily refer to a particular explorer or to a particular poet. That would only happen if there was an antecedent mention of a particular explorer or poet. In a standalone phrase like this, the reference is general.

I really think this needs the input of native speakers of English and of Irish. No matter how good your Irish, you can't begin to translate the Irish if you don't understand the English properly to begin with.

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).

Ceart go leor, but do you mean the indefinite articles "a" and "an" may have a definite meaning in English? Because that's the problem with our phrase.

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Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne

No, I mean the definite article an can have an indefinite (general) meaning in Irish.

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).

General but not indefinite

To me "tá spiorad an taiscéalaí agam" sound odd in Irish, for instance, while "tá spiorad taiscéalaí agam" sounds normal. Does "taiscéalaí" have a general meaning here? anyway the definite article disturbs me

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Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne

The more I think of it the more it keeps coming for me up as:

Anam taisceálaí - croí file

... might be not word for word béarla but I feel I had to submit it anyway...

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Bí cinnte de go nglacfaidh triúr le gach aistriúchán a thabharfar.
Be sure to get three in agreement with a translation given.

That's why I'd like the input of a native speaker (or two.)

Tá spiorad an taiscéalaí agat (or perhaps ionat?) doesn't sound strange to me. Tá spiorad taiscéalaí agat does.

But then neither of us are native speakers ...

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).