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 Post subject: Re: 'afghan'
PostPosted: Sun 02 Sep 2012 7:12 pm 
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Diminutive -ín and its plural -íní always stay the same in the genitive.

Táim ag cróiseáil úibín do mo chara.
Táim ag cróiseáil úibíní do mo chara.

Now, whether a consonant needs to be lenited or not, I'm not so sure about:

Táim ag cróiseáil pluid(ín) do mo chara.
Táim ag cróiseáil phluid(ín) do mo chara.

Can someone more advanced please enlighten us?


Just found another word for blanket ciumhais. A ciumhais is a "single blanket or strip"; a pluid is a "double blanket". And there is a diminutive ciumhaisín as well. ;)

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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 Post subject: Re: 'afghan'
PostPosted: Sun 02 Sep 2012 7:18 pm 
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Breandán wrote:

Just found another word for blanket ciumhais. A ciumhais is a "single blanket or strip"; a pluid is a "double blanket". And there is a diminutive ciumhaisín as well. ;)


I didn't know that.

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It is recommended that you always wait for three to agree on a translation.
I speak Connemara Irish, and my input will often reflect that.
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 Post subject: Re: 'afghan'
PostPosted: Sun 02 Sep 2012 7:24 pm 
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Does pluid come from plaid, or vice-versa?


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 Post subject: Re: 'afghan'
PostPosted: Mon 03 Sep 2012 1:31 pm 
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Breandán wrote:
Now, whether a consonant needs to be lenited or not, I'm not so sure about:

Táim ag cróiseáil pluid(ín) do mo chara.
Táim ag cróiseáil phluid(ín) do mo chara.


Why would I need to lenite?

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Táim ag foghlaim Gaelainn na Mumhan

Tá fáilte roim nach aon cheartú!
I am a learner. Any translations offered are practice and should not be used unless confirmed.


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 Post subject: Re: 'afghan'
PostPosted: Mon 03 Sep 2012 1:46 pm 
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Aislingeach wrote:
Breandán wrote:
Now, whether a consonant needs to be lenited or not, I'm not so sure about:

Táim ag cróiseáil pluid(ín) do mo chara.
Táim ag cróiseáil phluid(ín) do mo chara.


Why would I need to lenite?

Because the verbal noun is feminine and feminine nouns usually cause their adjectives to lenite? :dhera:

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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 Post subject: Re: 'afghan'
PostPosted: Mon 03 Sep 2012 1:52 pm 
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Breandán wrote:
Because the verbal noun is feminine and feminine nouns usually cause their adjectives to lenite? :dhera:


Now I am way confused! The noun after a verbal noun is considered an adjective?

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Táim ag foghlaim Gaelainn na Mumhan

Tá fáilte roim nach aon cheartú!
I am a learner. Any translations offered are practice and should not be used unless confirmed.


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 Post subject: Re: 'afghan'
PostPosted: Mon 03 Sep 2012 2:00 pm 
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You're right. It is a noun but I think nouns in the genitive still lenite like adjectives (but I'm not sure, that's why I'm asking others to explain whether they do or not.)

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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 Post subject: Re: 'afghan'
PostPosted: Mon 03 Sep 2012 2:15 pm 
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Okay, I've found the "rule" in Graiméar Gaeilge na mBráithre Críostaí:

Quote:
4.16 Ainneoin a bhfuil ráite in 4.14, ní gnách séimhiú ar ghinideach ainmfhocail éiginnte nó ainm bhriathartha atá faoi réir ag ainmfhocal eile sna cásanna seo:

...

- ar lorg ainm bhriathartha a bhfuil réamhfhocal roimhe: ag tógáil potaí; a
iarraidh comhairle
; ar chosaint cathracha; ach amháin i leaganacha seanbhunaithe mar ag
fáil bháis (bhisigh)


Tá eisceachtaí eile ón riail seo le fáil sa teanga thall agus abhus, go háirithe le frásaí atá an-choitianta: ag cur choirce, ag baint mhóna, etc., ach arís ní athraíonn siad substaint na rialach.

"4.14" referred to therein is:

Quote:
4.14 Séimhítear tuiseal ginideach ainmfhocail éiginnte nó ainm briathartha atá faoi réir
ag ainmfhocal eile nuair is ainmfhocal iolra dar críoch consan caol an chéad ainmfhocal:
buidéil bhainne; éisc mhara; faochain chapaill, nó nuair a chaolaítear san uatha consan
deiridh an chéad ainmfhocail trí infhilleadh: toirtín aráin choirce; sárú gealltanais phósta.

So you see that the genitive of indefinite nouns and verbal nouns are lenited when governed by another noun and the first noun is singular and ends in a slender consonant (4.24), but the preposition ag negates that rule (4.16).

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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 Post subject: Re: 'afghan'
PostPosted: Mon 03 Sep 2012 11:06 pm 
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Location: Santa Cruz Mountains, California, USA
I swear when I was a child, I'd never heard of the country, and thought the Afghan hound was so called because it resembled a shaggy blanket!

I still have an afghan that my grandmother crocheted for me when I went off to college.

Redwolf


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 Post subject: Re: 'afghan'
PostPosted: Tue 04 Sep 2012 4:29 pm 
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Location: Hamilton, NJ, USA
Breandán wrote:
So you see that the genitive of indefinite nouns and verbal nouns are lenited when governed by another noun and the first noun is singular and ends in a slender consonant (4.24), but the preposition ag negates that rule (4.16).

Thanks for clearing that up. It was disheartening to think that all my ag+VN+genitive practice would need to be done again because I had missed the lenition!

:GRMA:

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Táim ag foghlaim Gaelainn na Mumhan

Tá fáilte roim nach aon cheartú!
I am a learner. Any translations offered are practice and should not be used unless confirmed.


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