scw1217 wrote:
Foghlaimeoir, thanks for all of that. It gives me a lot to think about. When creating a fictional character, it isn't that unusual for an author to write an entire biography, though much of it may not be used. According to the story so far, his mother and father came over from Ireland to New York the year before he was born, 1850. His father died before he was born of a common disease, though I haven't specified which one in my mind, and he was subsequently raised by his mother. I had made him Protestant because that fits in with the storyline, though I was aware of the strong Catholic influence in Ireland. If as you said, she was Protestant, then that would explain his greater knowledge of the written language. I have not given much thought as to where she was from or what her story was. Really, I can make it whatever I need to fit his character.
Also, it being New York, there was a wide dispersion of Irish living there who I can imagine were from many places. It would be common for him to grow up in one of the many crowded tenements. He would hear other forms of Gaelic there. This would allow him some confusion between dialects.
The first book and the one which spurred all these questions has him commit a crime in New York and fleeing south (his mother has already passed away). He thinks by fleeing he can get away from his crime, but it only compounds the problem because he finds himself forced to marry a girl (not Irish) who he doesn't know. He comes to care for her, but his crime and the people holding them have a sinister plot. In the end, he has to find his faith again, as learned from his mother, in order to be free. That is the general gist of it. It wasn't until I was about 3/4 way into writing the story that I realized he needed to know Gaelic. He comes to a turning point where he wants to win back the love of his wife and so he sings to her. This is when the Gaelic emerged.
In the second and third books, he speaks it more fluently. But I have spaced it out enough using what's been given here, that English speaking readers won't be put off by it. I plan on translating much of it in the back of the book. It being of a historical fiction nature, I like to include the facts behind the story.
I have learned a lot from all of you!
An Foghlaimeoir- that just means learner in Irish!
Everyone has that written above their information. The blue highlited writing is the person's name
. Mine is An Cionnfhaolach, but my first name is "
Cian" (which can mean sorrow, ancient or to express that something is far away or old. I have also found out recently, on this forum, that it means boring as well
)and my surname is "
Ó Cionnfhaolaidh"(which means head wolf) (Kenneally is the anglicised name). All Irish second names may be turned into nouns so: "
an Cionnfhaolach"- or the Kenneally.
It is more than likely that the Protestants of your character's era would not have spoken Irish at all, if they did they would not have used it as their everyday language, because it was frowned upon and they would have had very little respect for it also because Irish was connected to poverty and backwardness. They would have undoubtedly conducted their religious lives through English or Latin (as I am not sure if the Protestant churches used Latin back then) but I am certain that they would not have used Irish. If they were protestant they would also have been much better off (wealth wise) than their catholic counterparts and they would not have been affected as badly by the Famine for two reasons.
First reason, many English people thought of the Famine as God's way of punishing the Irish for being Catholic, soup kitchens were set up, but many of these soup kitchens were only for protestants and one would have to convert to Protestantism in order to drink the soup. The people that converted were called "soup drinkers" or "soup takers". If your characters were one of these people, they would have been hated in their society for bowing to Protestantism. One protestant community that did not require people to convert where the Quakers and their very name exudes gratitude from the irish in Ireland to this day. Secondly, many landlords took pity on their Protestant tenants but evicted harshly their Catholic tenants when they could not pay their rents.
Protestants of an earlier era would have had and indeed spoken Irish for instance the 13 protestant apprentice boys (1.) that closed the gates of Derry in 1689 would have spoken Irish. Many people incorrectly believe Irish declined after the Famine, in truth, Irish was in decline before the Famine but the famine only accelerated its decline as the class of people most affected were Irish speaking Catholics, many died and many emigrated. Their was also the harsh realisation that in order for them to move up the social ladder they would have to learn and speak English and so many did with a heavy heart.
There was always a steady emigration rate from Ireland to America. The Emigrants that emigrated before the famine would have nearly all been Protestants, and were fairly well off, and whose families would have originally come from England or protestant Scotland. That is why today most Americans that claim Irish ancestory are in fact some form of Protestant.There are exceptions of course like the Catholic Pádraig Piarais Condún who was born in Baile Mhac Óda in 1777 (a place very close to where I live) and emigrated to Utica in 1826. He is of great interest because he is only one of two, I believe, who wrote their emigrant letters home in Irish. And whose personal poetry and letters (that may also conflict one another) give an insight into the life of an early Irish emigrant. His letters home are full of boasting about America saying how everyone is equal there, how life is easier with much better economic and employment opportunities- this trying to entice family members over- i.e Chain Migration. His personal poetry can contradict this and he often expresses love for Ireland with the want of returning home.
During the Famine years (1845- 1852), with 1847 being known as "
bliadhan an Áir" (or the year of the slaughter) i.e the worst year of the famine, there was a huge reversal, and Catholics made up the vast majority of emigrants because they were being the worst affected. Your character would therefore have more than likely been Catholic if his parents emigrated in this era.
There had been a fairly drastic decline in the Irish population from the Famine "
An Gorta Mór" (or the Great Hunger) (2.) of 1845-1853 onwards. From 8,175,124 in 1841 (before the Famine years to less) to 4,388,107 in 1905 (
http://www.libraryireland.com/articles/ ... /index.php) and continued on until the 60s. Emigration began again during the 80s with most being Catholic and most looking to the USA to build a new life. That is a huge demographic change to occur in such a short space of time.
These emigrants were known as "
deoraithe" (plural) or "
deoraí" (single), these mean those that are exiled or the one who is exiled. These "
deoraithe" saw their emigration as being forced upon them. The word "
deoraí" itself comes from the word "
deora" i.e tears i.e tears when you cry, they were so upset at leaving their country. So "
deoraí" directly translates as the one who is in/ with tears.
As you have mentioned that your character grew up in New York and he would have heard Irish, possibly from a variety of dialects, I have referenced a chapter of a book that you may find very useful:
Kenneth E. Nilsen, ‘The Irish Language in New York City 1850-1900,’
in T. Meagher and R. Bayor (organised),The New York Irish,
(Baltimore and London, 1995), pages 252- 74 I haven't read it myself, but I am going to. Did you know that The Irish in New York had their own Irish language Newspaper called "
Gaodhal", I think they have set up a new one in the same name but with re-formed spelling called "
Gael".
The Irish were also notorious for their political organisation in America which got them a powerful foothold in American politics. This was due to the experience of the Irish in trying to get a Catholic "
Daniel O' Connell" or as he was known to the Irish as "
Dónal Ó Conaill" also known as "
the Liberator" or "
An Fuascailteor" elected to Parliament, which was illegal at the time, because he was Catholic. This was successful because the Irish organised parish (3.) collections and organised "monster meetings" so called because they had such an attendance at them- they were latter band by the Protestant Government. Even Amhlaoibh Ó Suilleabháin whose diary I quoted from earlier collected this tax and also spoke in Irish and the "Monster Meetings" or "
Ollchruinnithe/ Ollaontaí" (mighty meetings/ gatherings) in Irish.
The Irish brought this knowledge with them and they were very successful in raising money for politicians and organising gatherings (Irish "
Aonach" (singular)/ "
aontaí" (plural) or meetings. Maybe you could do a bit of research in this area and incorporate it into your book, just as a way of showing the political climate of the day. Just as a suggestion, might be interesting.
1.
The Apprentice Boys, also known as the Brave 13, were the group who closed the gates of Derry and refused to surrender to the Catholic James the second's jacobithe army during the "Siege of Derry" between 18 April until- 28th of July 1689. The siege was finally lifted when Royal Navy ships broke through the boom (floating) barrier and sailed up the river Foyle, thus giving the City relief and resources. The event is commemorated each year on the 28th of July by the "
Apprentice Boys' Order". They march around the walls of Derry including the walls overlooking the "Bogside", a staunchly Catholic Nationalist area, which caused huge tension in he past, but thankfully not as much in recent years. Due to this "siege mentality" a number of Protestant slogans were coined "Never Surrender" and "
Londonderry (Derry as it is known by Protestants),
city still under siege"- This reflects the fact that Londonderry/ Derry has in over the years accumulated a large Catholic population and this population is seen as a threat.
2. Famine "
Gorta Mór" (Great hunger): by the way Gorta Mór is a fairly "knewish" term for the Famine of 1845- 1853, at the time most Irish speakers would have called it "
an Droch-shaoghal" or the (the bad life)
3.
Parish: An administrative part of a diocese that has its own church(es) and priest(s). A collection of parishes make up a Diocese. Originally used for taxation purposes.- Its basically a way of the Church breaks up the land for administrative purposes.
Apologies for such detailed answers but I believe a book that sounds as good as yours should be as accurate as possible.
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