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 Post subject: OT: Scottish Langage
PostPosted: Sat 06 Oct 2012 1:47 am 
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I found this article sad, in a way.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/05/world/eur ... ?hpt=hp_c1

Sass


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 Post subject: Re: OT: Scottish Langage
PostPosted: Sat 06 Oct 2012 3:46 am 
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Yeah I read it. Actually it's a Braid Scots dialect, it's not Gaelic, but still it's sad.
What is surprising too, is that linguists complain about the death of that dialect, but then why didn't they go and record its last speaker, since they knew about the dialect?

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 Post subject: Re: OT: Scottish Langage
PostPosted: Sat 06 Oct 2012 1:26 pm 
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Lughaidh wrote:
Yeah I read it. Actually it's a Braid Scots dialect, it's not Gaelic, but still it's sad.
What is surprising too, is that linguists complain about the death of that dialect, but then why didn't they go and record its last speaker, since they knew about the dialect?


He was probably recorded. But the language would still die as it couldn't be passed on naturally.

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 Post subject: Re: OT: Scottish Langage
PostPosted: Sat 06 Oct 2012 1:31 pm 
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Quote:
He was probably recorded.


the article says "The death of the 92-year-old retired engineer means that the Scots dialect known as Cromarty fisherfolk is now consigned to a collection of brief, distorted audio clips."

Quote:
But the language would still die as it couldn't be passed on naturally.


yeah of course, and anyway, even if someone wants to learn it, he can't because there's no study and only a few bad recordings.

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 Post subject: Re: OT: Scottish Langage
PostPosted: Sat 06 Oct 2012 7:25 pm 
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Here's another similar article about Scots Gaelic -
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highland ... s-16983134
My favourite island - Skye - seems to be losing out in spite of the fact that the main teaching institute for Scots Gaelic is there.


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 Post subject: Re: OT: Scottish Langage
PostPosted: Sat 06 Oct 2012 8:31 pm 
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Not teaching the local dialect in the place it's spoken, is stupid. Stopping speaking your mothertongue is too (in my opinion). I always wondered why people do so, especially when it's an endangered language.

I always wondered too why the Scottish dialects have been so few described by linguists. A handful of dialects have been described, most of the time, only their phonology (nothing about grammar), and the grammar of a handful of them has been described, but not completely. The Linguistic Atlas of Scotland doesn't give much information about grammar (almost nothing actually) -- in comparison there's much more stuff about Scottish dialects in the Linguistic Atlas of Ireland.
And I only know one dictionary of a specific dialect (Ross-shire). I wonder why it is so. What do the Scottish Gaelic scholars work about?...

It's really distressing to see that many people (especially scholars and linguists in particular) complain about the disparition of certain languages or dialects, while they didn't do anything to save them. Aren't they paid for that?

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 Post subject: Re: OT: Scottish Langage
PostPosted: Sat 06 Oct 2012 8:36 pm 
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Lughaidh wrote:
Not teaching the local dialect in the place it's spoken, is stupid. Stopping speaking your mothertongue is too (in my opinion). I always wondered why people do so, especially when it's an endangered language.
I agree with you, but ironically, it is possibly BECAUSE it is an endangered language that people choose not to use it. The view may be: if it's going to die, why waste the effort? People, in my opinion, do not believe in the power of one - the fact that each individual can make a difference. A movement of people is made up of individuals making an individual difference, but together they can change the way of the world. :party:

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 Post subject: Re: OT: Scottish Langage
PostPosted: Sat 06 Oct 2012 8:43 pm 
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Quote:
I agree with you, but ironically, it is possibly BECAUSE it is an endangered language that people choose not to use it.


when there are several speakers or when it is understandable by speakers of other dialects, there's no problem using it...

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Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
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 Post subject: Re: OT: Scottish Langage
PostPosted: Sat 06 Oct 2012 8:45 pm 
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Lughaidh wrote:
Quote:
I agree with you, but ironically, it is possibly BECAUSE it is an endangered language that people choose not to use it.


when there are several speakers or when it is understandable by speakers of other dialects, there's no problem using it...
I agree with you absolutely, but yet, many Gaeltacht speakers here in Ireland are choosing not to bring their children up through Irish. There has to be a reason and I think that it must be because they value English more and don't hold Irish in very high regard.

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 Post subject: Re: OT: Scottish Langage
PostPosted: Sat 06 Oct 2012 9:10 pm 
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It is called the "economics of language". Most people don't want to learn or even use language more than they have to. When given a choice they will choose and settle on the language that makes life easier, which usually means the language that gets them the most work (or business).

In order to turn the tide, greater awareness of the value of and demand for the less-economically viable language has to be demonstrated before the majority of people will switch back.

Our contribution therefore should be to try to help stimulate that awareness in any way we can, including contributing to that demand by supporting projects that promote the language.

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