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PostPosted: Sun 09 Sep 2012 4:51 pm 
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When I was a child I'd hear my parents sometimes mentioning An Tairgeaneacht, at least that's how I remember it. But I can't find that word. "Bhí sé ráite sa Tairgeanacht" etc.
I knew they meant a prophesy. But only now do I wonder what prophesy. Did they mean the Apocalypse or something else.
I did find "Tairngeartacht" which sounds similar.
And this -
In Early Modern Irish literature from about 1200 the royal patrons of bardic poets were often praised as the expected deliverers of Ireland – An Tiarngeartacht “the prophesied one”. One such redeemer was Aodh Eanghach...
(Celtic Culture: A Historical Encyclopedia (via Google Books)


I wonder could they have been talking about The Bards.

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PostPosted: Sun 09 Sep 2012 5:34 pm 
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Did your parents have..let's say 'non-orthodox' beliefs (for irish people)? If not, I'd say they were simply referring to the bible/prophets/ the 'promised land' (Tír Tairngire).


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PostPosted: Sun 09 Sep 2012 5:46 pm 
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Scooby wrote:
Did your parents have..let's say 'non-orthodox' beliefs (for irish people)? If not, I'd say they were simply referring to the bible/prophets/ the 'promised land' (Tír Tairngire).



They were devout Roman Catholic.

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I will do an mp3 file on request for short translations.

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PostPosted: Sun 09 Sep 2012 6:26 pm 
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Dinneen has tarngaireacht for "prophecy".

De Bhaldraithe and FGB have tairngreacht for "prediction, prophecy".

FGB has Tá sé sa tairngreacht "It is foretold" (not specifying by whom but as Scooby says inferring the bible?)

Substitution of n for r is common in dialect, as is contraposition (swapping two consonants around).

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My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
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PostPosted: Sun 09 Sep 2012 7:17 pm 
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Breandán wrote:
FGB has Tá sé sa tairngreacht "It is foretold" (not specifying by whom but as Scooby says inferring the bible?)


That makes sense.

I should've looked in FGB first instead of the online dictionaries. :oops:
:GRMA:

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It is recommended that you always wait for three to agree on a translation.
I speak Connemara Irish, and my input will often reflect that.
I will do an mp3 file on request for short translations.

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PostPosted: Sun 09 Sep 2012 8:13 pm 
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Second paragraph, first sentence:

Bhuel, mar is eol do chách, tháinig an tuar faoin an tairngreacht agus ní ag maíomh atáim as eolas ná as tuiscint ar leith a bheith agam nuair a scríobh mé an méid sin thuas in 2008.

ó http://www.beo.ie/alt-eacht-katie-taylor.aspx

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PostPosted: Mon 10 Sep 2012 3:10 pm 
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Bríd Mhór wrote:
When I was a child I'd hear my parents sometimes mentioning An Tairgeaneacht, at least that's how I remember it. But I can't find that word. "Bhí sé ráite sa Tairgeanacht" etc.
I knew they meant a prophesy. But only now do I wonder what prophesy. Did they mean the Apocalypse or something else.
I did find "Tairngeartacht" which sounds similar.
And this -
In Early Modern Irish literature from about 1200 the royal patrons of bardic poets were often praised as the expected deliverers of Ireland – An Tiarngeartacht “the prophesied one”. One such redeemer was Aodh Eanghach...
(Celtic Culture: A Historical Encyclopedia (via Google Books)


I wonder could they have been talking about The Bards.


Tairngreacht were also carried out by a "Bé/ Bean feasa" such as Biddy Early (the last people to have direct contact with her her died in the 1950s) or less commonly a Fear feasa who had the divine "fios" or the "imbas forasnai" (from the táin). It is not known whether most of these people actually existed but they are many stories of them in sean(a)chas stories. The bean feasa and seanchas explanations were used to explain phenomena that science could not at the time. They included babies that failed to thrive, strokes (or poc sí in Irish), sudden death of young people (untimely death) etc...

They believed that the person inflicted was in fact a "changeling" (síof(a)ra etc...) The síofra was a cranky person of the Aos Sí/ Slua aerach srl... ( a fairy or the púca (original members of the Túath Dé Danann) who were forced under ground due to the Míl Éspaine/ the Gaels (who came from Spain (Lebor Gabála Érenn). The living person was taken by the Aos Sí and the síofra was put in its place. The Aos Sí are suppose to be active during liminal times e.g dusk and dawn, changing of the seasons and Halloween.

The Bean feasa had a connection with the Aos Síde and they learned their magic and therefore their ability to predict the future from them. One method common in Galway was known as "casadh na gcupán". The bean Sí are also connected to modern day Vates/ banfhili (banfhile) or the druids but they obviously lived much later (modern day witch- doctors). The "fios" was also common in scotland as the "taghairm".

This way of thinking was common in superstitious older people until the late 1950s and maybe 60s. There is accounts in the late 1880s of people roasting children on a ramhainn (I can't remember the English for it) or drowning them because they believed that they were síofraí and not their actual children because they were failing to develop in the normal way i.e not speaking when they should be able to etc.. The Sí were said to hate water and fire. The law didn't take a harsh view on these murders because they understood the superstitions of the people and believed them to be mad.
However after all that I'd say your parents were referring to the bible rather than the prophecies of a bean feasa.

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I'm familiar with Munster Irish/ Gaolainn na Mumhan (GM) and the Official Standard/an Caighdeán Oifigiúil (CO)


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PostPosted: Mon 10 Sep 2012 6:32 pm 
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Séamas Ó Grianna wrote a hard to find novel called "Tarngaireacht Mhiseoige". Miseog was a woman who made
prophecies in 19th century Donegal.

The Munster version of the word is Taragaireacht, if anybody wants to know.

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