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 Post subject: Conas agus cad é mar...
PostPosted: Mon 03 Sep 2012 8:29 pm 
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This may come across as pedantic; but here goes anyway: :dhera:

Is the difference betwixt Conas atá tu(?) agus Cad é mar atá tú(?) merely preference, dialectical, or is it perhaps regional?

What/which/or either is actually colloquial?

Go raibh maith agat,
Seán


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PostPosted: Mon 03 Sep 2012 8:39 pm 
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The first is more common in Munster (as far as I know) though there are other slightly different ways of saying it there as well.


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PostPosted: Mon 03 Sep 2012 8:53 pm 
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Seán wrote:
This may come across as pedantic; but here goes anyway: :dhera:

Is the difference betwixt Conas atá tu(?) agus Cad é mar atá tú(?) merely preference, dialectical, or is it perhaps regional?

What/which/or either is actually colloquial?

Go raibh maith agat,
Seán


Conas atá tú? - Is Caighdeanach I believe.

In Munster they actually say - Conas atánn tú? (??)

Cad é mar atá tú? - is Donegal, also said as - Goide mar atá tú? (??)

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It is recommended that you always wait for three to agree on a translation.
I speak Connemara Irish, and my input will often reflect that.
I will do an mp3 file on request for short translations.

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PostPosted: Mon 03 Sep 2012 8:57 pm 
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Bríd Mhór wrote:
Conas atá tú? - Is Caighdeanach I believe.
I hate to ask the obvious (although I do it all the time!), but are you saying that 'Conas atá tú?' does not actually belong to ANY dialect? Are you suggesting that they literally made it up?

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PostPosted: Mon 03 Sep 2012 9:00 pm 
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Saoirse wrote:
Bríd Mhór wrote:
Conas atá tú? - Is Caighdeanach I believe.
I hate to ask the obvious (although I do it all the time!), but are you saying that 'Conas atá tú?' does not actually belong to ANY dialect? Are you suggesting that they literally made it up?


:yes:
Not untypical of the Caighdeán.

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___________________________________________________________

It is recommended that you always wait for three to agree on a translation.
I speak Connemara Irish, and my input will often reflect that.
I will do an mp3 file on request for short translations.

___________________________________________________________


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PostPosted: Mon 03 Sep 2012 10:33 pm 
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You probably already know, a Sheáin, that the colloquial form in Connemara is:

Cén chaoi a bhfuil tú ?
KEH khwee WILL too
/k´e xi: wil´tu:/ (Note that the n is dropped from cén).

Conas atá tú ? isn't so much "made up" as they've taken the Munster version and standardised it. (Why they would base the "standard" expression on a minority dialect instead of the largest group of native speakers is a question of history and politics.)

The three patterns conas ... ?, cén chaoi ... ?, and cad é/goidé mar atá ... ? are regional preferences for Munster, Connacht, and Ulster, respectively, and extend beyond "How are you?" to more general questions of "How is/are ... ?"

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My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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PostPosted: Mon 03 Sep 2012 11:16 pm 
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In Munster, it's:

Conas taoi? or Conas tánn tú? – How are you? (singular)

Conas tánn sibh? – How are you? (plural)

"Conas atá tú?" does not exist in ANY native dialect.


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PostPosted: Tue 04 Sep 2012 2:26 am 
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Oooh (squeel! of delight)
Seems a bit more interesting than I originally thought...or i might be projecting. Nevertheless...
Bríd Mhór wrote:
: Conas atá tú? - Is Caighdeanach I believe.
In Munster they actually say - Conas atánn tú? (??)
Cad é mar atá tú? - is Donegal, also said as - Goide mar atá tú? (??)


Now while I'm working from a half dozen sources, mind you, the vast majority of my audible at present is coming from the BBC 'giota beag'/'giota beag eile'....what do you'all (is it 'shiv') think of those programs? Maybe even start a thread on the other...shite what's it called...whatever the other language medium (I posted to it about rosetta stone...) anyhow, what about a new thread about the BBC Irish language learning program???

(Please don't stone me. I'm american. I frankly have no conception or give a s*** of whatever politics might be involved in suggesting something like a BBC program :/ )

Which makes sense, I thought I was putting across 'goide' as I felt I seemed to hear in my ulster 'Goide' [ka/gu jay mar] (APPROXIMATION! ":cowerandshake" )
But: unfamiliar with: "Caighdeanach"?

Breandán wrote:
You probably already know, a Sheáin, that the colloquial form in Connemara is:

Cén chaoi a bhfuil tú ?
KEH khwee WILL too
/k´e xi: wil´tu:/ (Note that the n is dropped from cén).

Conas atá tú ? isn't so much "made up" as they've taken the Munster version and standardised it. (Why they would base the "standard" expression on a minority dialect instead of the largest group of native speakers is a question of history and politics.)

The three patterns conas ... ?, cén chaoi ... ?, and cad é/goidé mar atá ... ? are regional preferences for Munster, Connacht, and Ulster, respectively, and extend beyond "How are you?" to more general questions of "How is/are ... ?"


Ah but no, Connemara colloquial is as foreign to me as french I'm afraid, of course so is the rest of Irish but I'm working at it :D
Now that sounds interesting! By what do you mean history and politics have decided the fate and favor of a phrase so simple?!?


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PostPosted: Tue 04 Sep 2012 5:15 am 
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Seán wrote:
Oooh (squeel! of delight)
Seems a bit more interesting than I originally thought...or i might be projecting. Nevertheless...
Bríd Mhór wrote:
: Conas atá tú? - Is Caighdeanach I believe.
In Munster they actually say - Conas atánn tú? (??)
Cad é mar atá tú? - is Donegal, also said as - Goide mar atá tú? (??)


Now while I'm working from a half dozen sources, mind you, the vast majority of my audible at present is coming from the BBC 'giota beag'/'giota beag eile'....what do you'all (is it 'shiv') think of those programs? Maybe even start a thread on the other...shite what's it called...whatever the other language medium (I posted to it about rosetta stone...) anyhow, what about a new thread about the BBC Irish language learning program???

(Please don't stone me. I'm american. I frankly have no conception or give a s*** of whatever politics might be involved in suggesting something like a BBC program :/ )

Which makes sense, I thought I was putting across 'goide' as I felt I seemed to hear in my ulster 'Goide' [ka/gu jay mar] (APPROXIMATION! ":cowerandshake" )
But: unfamiliar with: "Caighdeanach"?

Breandán wrote:
You probably already know, a Sheáin, that the colloquial form in Connemara is:

Cén chaoi a bhfuil tú ?
KEH khwee WILL too
/k´e xi: wil´tu:/ (Note that the n is dropped from cén).

Conas atá tú ? isn't so much "made up" as they've taken the Munster version and standardised it. (Why they would base the "standard" expression on a minority dialect instead of the largest group of native speakers is a question of history and politics.)

The three patterns conas ... ?, cén chaoi ... ?, and cad é/goidé mar atá ... ? are regional preferences for Munster, Connacht, and Ulster, respectively, and extend beyond "How are you?" to more general questions of "How is/are ... ?"


Ah but no, Connemara colloquial is as foreign to me as french I'm afraid, of course so is the rest of Irish but I'm working at it :D
Now that sounds interesting! By what do you mean history and politics have decided the fate and favor of a phrase so simple?!?


"Goide" and "Cad é" are pronounced pretty much the same (I think, to be honest, that "goide" is a more or less phonetic rendition of how "cad é" actually sounds...kind of "guh-JAY").

If it helps, consider how many different ways there are to say "how are you?" in English. "How's it going?" "How're you doing?" "What's up?" etc. It's really not all that surprising that there would be different regional variations for this basic greeting in Irish.

"Caighdeánach" means "standardized." The "Caighdeán Oifigiúl" (Official Standard) is a standardized form of Irish that no one, really, is terribly satisfied with. It draws a little from here and a little from there, and homogenizes things in a way that no actual speaker of the language does.

"Y'all" would be "sibh" in that case, but yes...it's pronounced "shiv."

Lots of us Americans around here. Join the crowd!

Redwolf


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PostPosted: Tue 04 Sep 2012 7:57 am 
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WeeFalorieMan wrote:
In Munster, it's:

Conas taoi? or Conas tánn tú? – How are you? (singular)

Conas tánn sibh? – How are you? (plural)

"Conas atá tú?" does not exist in ANY native dialect.

For the plural some older speakers in Munster use:

Conas táthaoi?

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