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PostPosted: Sat 14 Apr 2012 4:08 pm 
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Breandán wrote:
Lughaidh wrote:
Anyway, it's as simple as this: why do they prefix stuff while nobody has done it for say more than 1000 years? It's as if you were re-introducing declensions in English :mrgreen:
That would be a rather simplistic interpretation indeed. :rolleyes:

In both French and English, we go back further than that to make compound words from Latin and Greek that make very handy compounds for modern concepts where stringing together French or English words would make for unwieldy phrases instead of concise single words.

You can try to make it sound as ridiculous as you like but it is a useful tool.


Some languages take well to having a Coiste or Academy coining new words. For example Swedish, they seem to do a lot of it and the people are happy with it.
But generally speaking Irish speakers, especially native ones, don't like a Coiste up in Dublin telling us how to use our language. Irish should develop words naturally, which it will do given a bit of time. Let them go to Conamara or Donegal and ask natives "what do you call a fridge?" etc. Even if that word is an adapted English word it is still natural. I accept that compound words were a lot in Irish in the past, but today they sound unnatural.

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PostPosted: Sat 14 Apr 2012 4:30 pm 
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Bríd Mhór wrote:
Some languages take well to having a Coiste or Academy coining new words. For example Swedish, they seem to do a lot of it and the people are happy with it.
But generally speaking Irish speakers, especially native ones, don't like a Coiste up in Dublin telling us how to use our language. Irish should develop words naturally, which it will do given a bit of time. Let them go to Conamara or Donegal and ask natives "what do you call a fridge?" etc. Even if that word is an adapted English word it is still natural. I accept that compound words were a lot in Irish in the past, but today they sound unnatural.

And I think there is plenty of room for both.

In English, you can call an ophthalmologist an "eye specialist" or an "eye doctor" in everyday speech but the Latin term is useful for distinguishing that type of "eye doctor" from an optometrist and other types of "eye specialist".

Everyday speech is important, but modern life also needs the technical terms and sometimes the everyday approach is inadequate for that purpose.

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My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
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PostPosted: Sat 14 Apr 2012 7:46 pm 
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Quote:
the Latin term is useful


it's Greek ;)

Btw we could use both "oftalmolajast" (nó rud ineacht mar sin) and "doctúr súl".
I've not verified but I'm almost sure the Coiste invented a word like "súil-lia" or something odd like that :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Sat 14 Apr 2012 7:50 pm 
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Lughaidh wrote:
I've not verified but I'm almost sure the Coiste invented a word like "súil-lia" or something odd like that
http://www.focal.ie/Search.aspx?term=s%C3%BAil-lia

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PostPosted: Sat 14 Apr 2012 8:30 pm 
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They are predictable :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Sun 15 Apr 2012 3:22 pm 
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I e-mailed focal.ie with the following suggestion. The question of prefixes comes up which is the only reason I'm posting this here. BTW they didn't accept my suggestion as they reckoned their word was already in use in the Gaeltacht.

Tá a fhios agam go bhfuil ‘scáileastát’ mar aistriúchán agaibh cheana (agus roimhe sin, mhol sibh ‘eastát sí’ nó ‘eastát tréigthe’) ach ní dóigh liom go bhfuil rud ar bith taibhsiúil ag baint leis na heastáit seo ná níl siad imithe chun donais i ndáiríre sa chomhthéacs 'ghost of his former self'. Is dócha go raibh tionchar ag 'ghost town' as Béarla ar an téarma 'ghost estate' ach is dóigh liom go bhfuil an Béarla féin míchruinn anseo mar níor chónaigh éinne riamh sna heastáit seo agus mar sin ní eastáit thréigthe iad. Mholfainn féin ‘eastát díomhaoin’ mar aistriúchán. Tá ‘seomra díomhaoin’ sa bhfoclóir i gcomhair 'unused room' agus ar ndóigh ‘Tá a chuid talaimh díomhaoin’ - 'His land is lying waste'. Anuas air sin, measaim féin gur cóir réimíreanna a sheachaint más féidir mar is minic a chuireann siad cuma shaorga ar fhocal.


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PostPosted: Sun 15 Apr 2012 6:45 pm 
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Quote:
BTW they didn't accept my suggestion as they reckoned their word was already in use in the Gaeltacht.


what word? scáileastát?
If it's in use in the Gaeltacht, it's because Gaeltacht people have learnt it, it's not because they would have created it themselves :)
It's like "Gaelscoil" mar shompla. If it had come from a Gaeltacht speaker's brain, it would be "scoil Ghaeilge" or "scoil Ghaelach" and not "Gaelscoil". And there are many other words like that. Some of these new "bunoscionn" words are in use in the Gaeltacht because they are used all the time in the Irish media, it's not because the Gaeltacht people have created them nor because they consider them as "normal Irish words"...

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PostPosted: Sun 15 Apr 2012 7:04 pm 
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Scooby wrote:
I e-mailed focal.ie with the following suggestion. The question of prefixes comes up which is the only reason I'm posting this here. BTW they didn't accept my suggestion as they reckoned their word was already in use in the Gaeltacht.

Tá a fhios agam go bhfuil ‘scáileastát’ mar aistriúchán agaibh cheana (agus roimhe sin, mhol sibh ‘eastát sí’ nó ‘eastát tréigthe’) ach ní dóigh liom go bhfuil rud ar bith taibhsiúil ag baint leis na heastáit seo ná níl siad imithe chun donais i ndáiríre sa chomhthéacs 'ghost of his former self'. Is dócha go raibh tionchar ag 'ghost town' as Béarla ar an téarma 'ghost estate' ach is dóigh liom go bhfuil an Béarla féin míchruinn anseo mar níor chónaigh éinne riamh sna heastáit seo agus mar sin ní eastáit thréigthe iad. Mholfainn féin ‘eastát díomhaoin’ mar aistriúchán. Tá ‘seomra díomhaoin’ sa bhfoclóir i gcomhair 'unused room' agus ar ndóigh ‘Tá a chuid talaimh díomhaoin’ - 'His land is lying waste'. Anuas air sin, measaim féin gur cóir réimíreanna a sheachaint más féidir mar is minic a chuireann siad cuma shaorga ar fhocal.

Not that this is the main point of your post, but eastát folamh might work as well.

Perhaps people in the Gaeltacht need to start their own list to present more natural compounds as alternatives to the ones the Coiste is churning out? If they did create their own list, it would be useful to keep it up to date and make it accessible to everyone so that people could be consistent in their adoption and usage of the terms.

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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PostPosted: Sun 15 Apr 2012 7:29 pm 
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Scooby wrote:
I e-mailed focal.ie with the following suggestion. The question of prefixes comes up which is the only reason I'm posting this here. BTW they didn't accept my suggestion as they reckoned their word was already in use in the Gaeltacht.

Tá a fhios agam go bhfuil ‘scáileastát’ mar aistriúchán agaibh cheana (agus roimhe sin, mhol sibh ‘eastát sí’ nó ‘eastát tréigthe’) ach ní dóigh liom go bhfuil rud ar bith taibhsiúil ag baint leis na heastáit seo ná níl siad imithe chun donais i ndáiríre sa chomhthéacs 'ghost of his former self'. Is dócha go raibh tionchar ag 'ghost town' as Béarla ar an téarma 'ghost estate' ach is dóigh liom go bhfuil an Béarla féin míchruinn anseo mar níor chónaigh éinne riamh sna heastáit seo agus mar sin ní eastáit thréigthe iad. Mholfainn féin ‘eastát díomhaoin’ mar aistriúchán. Tá ‘seomra díomhaoin’ sa bhfoclóir i gcomhair 'unused room' agus ar ndóigh ‘Tá a chuid talaimh díomhaoin’ - 'His land is lying waste'. Anuas air sin, measaim féin gur cóir réimíreanna a sheachaint más féidir mar is minic a chuireann siad cuma shaorga ar fhocal.


scáileastát OMG
eastát sí -just as bad, occupied by the fairles.
Neither would be used in Conamara.

eastát tréigthe - this is ok I'd say, as the estates are abandoned by the builders.

_________________
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It is recommended that you always wait for three to agree on a translation.
I speak Connemara Irish, and my input will often reflect that.
I will do an mp3 file on request for short translations.

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PostPosted: Sun 15 Apr 2012 7:37 pm 
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Bríd Mhór wrote:
eastát tréigthe - this is ok I'd say, as the estates are abandoned by the builders.

:yes:

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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